Deborah Shouse is the coauthor of Working Woman's Communications Survival Guide and a contributor to a number of anthologies, including the American Book Award winner I am Becoming the Woman I've Wanted. Still, I personally don't care much for the effect. It is an important decision because restoration of metal sculptures using welding or brazing, that generate intensive heat, damages relatively large areas of the original patina requiring repainting / antiquing covering a much greater surface than the break area. Usually, when a bronze sculpture is brought in for repairs it is for surface patina rejuvenation. Figures are often thinly cast and fragile, so alwyas make sure you hold them at the most solid part. Always cover all antique sculpture and statues before spraying garden chemicals anywhere near them. By continuing to use the site you are agreeing to our usage of cookies. Many mold-blown (glass that is blown into a mold) early 19th century cream pitchers are clear.

Deborah Shouse is the coauthor of Working Woman's Communications Survival Guide and a contributor to a number of anthologies, including the American Book Award winner I am Becoming the Woman I've Wanted. and Lang, J. (click pictures). In his etymology of the English language, 19th-century philologist Walter William Skeat speculated that the word pewter might have been derived from spelter.[1]. +33 (0)1 42 25 12 79 Tue.-Sat., from 10am to 6pm+33 (0)6 60 62 61 90 Everyday from 9am to 7pm. For further queries about spelter or bronze, or about anything in our collection, please contact us. Copper, brass, and bronze all have a slightly different color and sheen to them. An authentic bronze will hold a great deal of fine detail, while at the same time having a smooth, regular finish. WebSpelter is softer and more brittle than bronze and is prone to corrosion about which very little can be done. If it's signed, is the signature real? Is it made by the artist or company that is indicated? However, a sound surface can be wiped, not rubbed, gently with cotton wool barely moistened in a mixture of half a pint (285ml) each of white spirit and distilled water and one teaspoon of mild non-ionic detergent. Scratching the patina also shows the surface of the metal underneath. We organize the delivery worldwide. Is My Sculpture Valuable? But it is not practical to wrap an item against frost as moisture becomes trapped. Keep metal sculptures away from moisture. Some stone dissolves or is irreparably worn away by misguided attempts at cleaning. As technology and the ability to reproduce items become more advanced, identifying the authentic antique becomes more difficult.\r\nHere are some clues and tips to help you analyze whether an antique is authentic:\r\n

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Aesthetics

\r\nYou may look at a piece, and think \"If only that orange line weren't painted down the middle of it . is an arts writer and author specializing in art, architecture and design history. spelter How do you tell if a statue is made of bronze? Care and Maintenance A sound surface can be cleaned with a soft bristled brush or cotton wool moistened in water with a few drops of non-ionic detergent added. Finally, bronze is heavier than spelter. Images and text all rights reserved. M A Moreau lady / child bronze sculpture real or fake. Heres a quick guide for how to identify each material - and therefore determine if something is made of spelter or bronze. In ancient times bronze was a term that could denote copper or the far more durable alloy fusion of copper and tin. WebFig. WebMost sculptures are made from spelter or bronze. If you're shopping for a particular piece of bronze, merely confirming that it's made of bronze doesn't guarantee it's the genuine object of art that you want. Books on your areas of interest also will show the better pieces.\r\n

Desirability

\r\nDesirability is defined by what's in vogue in the current market. Some scam artists will duplicate a classic bronze, then sell it as the original. .\" or, \"If only that carving weren't slightly off-center. Finally, the spelter sound and the bronze sound make it possible to differentiate them: the spelter will have a deep resonance whereas the bronze will make a rather acute sound.In 1910, faced with numerous confusions, the bronze makers obtained a court ruling which obligated the manufacturers of zinc sculpture to put the mention "bronze imitation" instead of "bronze art", particularly because of the realization of the same models both made up of bronze and zinc or spelter. To answer this question, it is helpful to research the artist, date and provenance of the sculpture as well as the materials used. It is also poisonous so always wash your hands after handling. Her articles and essays have appeared in Redbook, Family Circle, Woman's Day, Reader's Digest, Family Life, and Ms.

","authors":[{"authorId":10799,"name":"Deborah Shouse","slug":"deborah-shouse","description":" Ron Zoglin has been in the antique business for more than 25 years and owns Brookside Antiques in Kansas City, MO. And if no one in your area code has one, chances are, you have a piece that's pretty valuable.\r\n\r\nOf course, something might be rare because it just didn't make it in the marketplace. A mixture of tin and copper, bronze has been used for thousands of years to create both full-sized statues and smaller figurines through the process of casting -- i.e., pouring the molten alloy into a mould. Bronzes are extremely heavy. Where Can My Sculpture be Fixed and What is The Repair Cost? I have a similar one with three figures instead of two. Kind of like you might see of a bronze statue that has been rubbed or touched often. Is it from the time period the seller says it's from? Fig. If you're looking at an old bronze, you should see a patina; a film that forms on the surface from reaction to the air. Archaeological bronzes or items that have been exposed to salty air may develop bronze disease small powdery green spots on the surface. One of the basic phases of electroplating is the application of copper, a However, with increasing interest and desire to purchase original Art Deco pieces, collectors are looking to period objects made from a variety of materials. Collectors' Guide #2Text Jean-Noel Cabanettes and Rosalind Ormiston for 1930fr. You can also get the effect by applying darker metal wax to a lighter base coat. Art Deco figurines of women, often dancing, were made of bronze or spelter (white metal) for the main part, ivory for the hands and faces. [2] But even items that aren't as fragile as glass or ceramics, such as wood tables and cabinets, are at risk of being damaged, and perhaps damaged so badly they are discarded over time.\r\n \t
  • A rare or unusual color or design for a particular type of antique. 0, forum

    Deborah Shouse is the coauthor of Working Woman's Communications Survival Guide and a contributor to a number of anthologies, including the American Book Award winner I am Becoming the Woman I've Wanted. If you set a magnet on bronze, it'll fall off. - Site map Based in the United Kingdom, Graham Rix has been writing on the arts, antiquing and other enthusiasms since 1987. Early twentieth-century Art Nouveau and Art Deco figures and lamps were often made of spelter. By contrast, spelter and resin are both comparatively light, but they are sometimes attached to heavy wood or stone bases to give them extra weight. It is made up of antimony, lead and sometimes tin. What makes a spelter sculpture look like bronze? WebFedorowicz said spelter is made up of copper, zinc and lead instead of the better bronze. Look carefully at each item you're considering buying, inside and out, upside down, and right side up. In a raw state it is brittle when cold but pliable when heated to 100-150 degrees centigrade. . you read and agreed to the, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGNWevrJBHs. The speltering process [ edit ] Brass was made using a cementation process but this was replaced by speltering , the direct alloying of copper and zinc metal which was introduced to Europe in the 16th century. Spelter is soft and breaks easily. have a golden color. Some examples of rarities in terms of size or shape include silver spoons or other utensils with a specialized purpose, such as silver stuffing spoons used for stuffing a turkey or goose or marrow spoons used for coaxing the marrow out of bones. In fact, spelter is referred to as \"the poor man's bronze,\" because it was created for those who admired bronze and couldn't afford it.

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    Really great condition

    \r\nIn an ideal world, the antique you are contemplating buying would be in exactly the same condition as it was the day it was born. Expected (estimated) weight of a 29" statue if bronze or spelter. Figures are often thinly cast and fragile, so alwyas make sure you hold them at the most solid part. A graduate of Oberlin College, Fraser Sherman began writing in 1981. There are beautiful examples of craftsmanship from this era. But this does not mean that the current market is saturated. White marble and similar materials can be dusted with pure talc to fill the pores and prevent dust becoming ingrained. You want to understand the damage and changes the piece has undergone so that you can understand if the price pleases you. But spelter does not wear as well, is lighter weight, cannot be cast in as fine a detail, and is far less valuable. Spelter, used in the 19th century to imitate bronze. Like bronze, spelter is an alloy, which is a metal combined with other elements. In the past spelter has often been overlooked by art dealers in preference to bronze. Some functional and breakable antiques were manufactured in relatively large numbers but are now more scarce, such as crystal stemware, porcelain dishes, and tea sets. Rinse immediately and dry well. He is an accredited senior member of the American Society of Appraisers, a certified member of the Appraisers Association of America, an accredited member of the International Society of Appraisers, and a member of the National Association of Dealers in Antiques. These antiques \"shaped up\" in unusual ways. The biggest choice of french mantels in marble. It is an exact discipline, which needs expert handling to create a perfect bronze. Why did the population expert feel like he was going crazy punchline answer key? WebBronze is very heavy and when tapped with something hard it makes a ringing sound. Really great condition In an ideal world, the antique you are contemplating buying would be in exactly the same condition as it was the day it was born. Again, the metal part was colored with a special paint. And what is today's value ? Spelter sculptures are fairly light and have a Welding or Adhesive? On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. The term "spelter" is never used in France during the 19th century.The real spelter is an alloy appeared at the end of the 19th century. Whether you are purchasing antiques because of their beauty, or because you simply love older things, or because you are hoping that they will hold their value, the best rule is to buy what you like and to keep your "RADAR" out for values. {"appState":{"pageLoadApiCallsStatus":true},"articleState":{"article":{"headers":{"creationTime":"2016-03-26T22:42:13+00:00","modifiedTime":"2021-11-04T16:36:34+00:00","timestamp":"2022-09-14T18:18:44+00:00"},"data":{"breadcrumbs":[{"name":"Home, Auto, & Hobbies","_links":{"self":"https://dummies-api.dummies.com/v2/categories/33809"},"slug":"home-auto-hobbies","categoryId":33809},{"name":"Antiques & Collectibles","_links":{"self":"https://dummies-api.dummies.com/v2/categories/33810"},"slug":"antiques-collectibles","categoryId":33810},{"name":"Antiques","_links":{"self":"https://dummies-api.dummies.com/v2/categories/33811"},"slug":"antiques","categoryId":33811}],"title":"The Five Signs of a Valuable Antique","strippedTitle":"the five signs of a valuable antique","slug":"the-five-signs-of-a-valuable-antique","canonicalUrl":"","seo":{"metaDescription":"You're going to spend some money on furniture and accessories, so you may as well buy something that can hold its value after you use it. So without seeing a clear difference, its not easy to tell if an ornament is made out of spelter or bronze. The piece might be too large, too loud, or too ugly. Her articles and essays have appeared in Redbook, Family Circle, Woman's Day, Reader's Digest, Family Life, and Ms.

    Ron Zoglin has been in the antique business for more than 25 years and owns Brookside Antiques in Kansas City, MO. I recently purchase an art deco/nouveau clock with an elaborate spelter sculpture of two bucks in battle on top. Web19K views 5 years ago Watch Dr. Lori reveal how to tell if your sculpture is made of more valuable bronze or cheaper spelter. Is bronze a precious metal? Most metal sculptures that come to us are made of Bronze or Spelter. HI MOONMOM. Perhaps a porcelain figurine's finger has broken and been repaired by an expert.\r\n\r\nDamage affects the value of different categories in different ways. One difference is that spelter has a lower melting point, but thats not a very helpful check for an antiques collector! Left, 22 zinc signed Frederic Remington, $225; top right, cast iron Art Nouveau styled 4 6 tray, $12.50; below right, 4 cast iron dog, artist signed, $12.50. In fact, spelter is referred to as \"the poor man's bronze,\" because it was created for those who admired bronze and couldn't afford it.\r\n\r\n

    Really great condition

    \r\nIn an ideal world, the antique you are contemplating buying would be in exactly the same condition as it was the day it was born. Part of the mystery and fun of antiques is separating truth from fiction. 0, Architectural elements, staircase, columns. The quality of spelter is in its casting. Welding is not a reversible repair which museums prefer not to see. Since then he's researched and written newspaper and magazine stories on city government, court cases, business, real estate and finance, the uses of new technologies and film history. The solution is also suitable for cleaning hard stone such as a polished granite, onyx, blue john, jade and agate. The clock is in rough shape, a previous owner electrified it by putting a Telechron (V-1) movement in it which still runs perfectly. I love it and paid $20 with no shade. Antiques often have a greater chance of retaining value than new machine-made furniture. Sculptures that are made of bronze are heavy in weight and will Limestone, sandstone and coade stone form a weathered surface crust which if removed will expose a vulnerable crumbly surface beneath. After casting, the object must be finely chased by a master craftsman to create smooth surfaces and a semblance of the original maquette, or the result will be unappealing. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. Try experimenting. Painted or gilded figures should not be allowed to get wet but should only be dusted lightly with a soft haired artists brush. Some editions of the famous sculptures by the brothers Hippolyte and Auguste Moreau were thus both in bronze and spelter. One nineteenth century writer observed that it was so supple he could wrap a shaving of it around his finger. Check details such as facial features, fingers and so forth. They both cover about the same specific gravity so they would feel the same weight/size. It is worth taking a moment to consider the difference between an Art Deco sculpture made in bronze and one made in spelter, and the qualities of each material. Grey indicates spelter and red or brown points to resin. One simple test is to apply a magnet to the artwork and see if it sticks there. Leave it overnight to soak and then rinse it with hot water the next day. Alabaster and marble are porous and stain easily, and marble discolours and deteriorates particularly in salty or polluted air. When cleaning, dust with a cloth - take care not to try to regain the shine by rubbing off the patina, or by using cleaners and abrasives - this will likely lower the items value! With high value sculpture, one might consider museum-quality repairs (reversible repair) as compared to welding. Anytime a piece sustains damage, its value decreases. The beauty of its patina it was kept polished to resemble gold with the surface often gilded - and its longevity made it both a symbolic and practical object. Was this a copy of a larger Moreau sculpted? In the first half of the twentieth century more decorative objects, particularly small sculptures, were cast in spelter than bronze. Normally you solder spelter items that are broken but for a number of reasons the process can be quite difficult. Demand for cheap spelter grew in the 19th century. An old piece of bronze will have a patina. Spelter and resin are both comparatively light, but they are sometimes attached to heavy wood or stone bases to give them extra weight. Publications include, 2010 - 2019 French Cab, Jean-Nol Cabanettes - 1930.fr. Spelter is a lower value metal also known as white metal or pot metal. reply #5. Examine the item for patches where the patina, paint or gilding has worn through, revealing the base metal. Spelter has become highly desirable allowing collectors to purchase an original high-quality piece at a reasonable price. Outdoor pieces can be raised above ground level on plinths with built in damp proof membranes. Supposedly the one we have was purchased in Europe a good many years ago. Iron is another cheap alternative to using bronze in casting a figure. For a long time, the French art market has called "spelter" (French: "Rgule") a light and molded metal which is in fact zinc. Bronze is often confused with cheaper alternatives used in the production of figurines such as spelter -- an allow of zinc and lead -- and resin, a form of plastic. Demand for spelter increased during the mid-nineteenth century. Some examples of rarities in terms of size or shape include silver spoons or other utensils with a specialized purpose, such as silver stuffing spoons used for stuffing a turkey or goose or marrow spoons used for coaxing the marrow out of bones. Mechanics (Physics): The Study of Motion. there are water based paint strippers on the shelves of d.i.y stores or chemical based. Apply the wax with a soft bristled brush and burnish gently with a soft cloth. Spelter, a combination of metals, can look like bronze. How to Make Metal Look Like Antique Brass, How To Paint Wrought Iron To Look Antique. Books on your areas of interest also will show the better pieces. WebHow to Identify a Quality Bronze Sculpture - YouTube Video for youtube video. Tube: Willesden Green (Jubilee Line). Some good advice on caring for an antique sculpture and maintaining the surface or the patina of sculptures and statues of stone, bronze, spelter or lead. An inexpensive alloy that is easily cast and worked, spelter was used from the 1860s in the manufacture of candlesticks, clock cases, tableware, and light fixtures. Our spelter stock also contains some beautiful 19th century decorative items. After cast is removed, patina is applied the metallic looking surface. Alexander Tondeur (18291905), M. J. Seelig & Co. Moreover, the technical manuals of the time use "zinc sculpture" (French: "zinc d'art") for sculpture copies and works of art made especially from the second half of the 19th century. It can be distinguished from bronze by scratching its patina: untarnished spelter is white, while bronze is yellow. If you're looking at an old bronze, you should see a patina; a film that forms on the surface from reaction to the air. What does rustic bronze look like? What might be a minor chip or crack in a piece of porcelain can significantly devalue a piece of glass. Plus, other tips to identify marks. 8 years ago. Plus, antiques add a sense of warmth, history, and character to your house.\r\n\r\nWhether you are purchasing antiques because of their beauty, or because you simply love older things, or because you are hoping that they will hold their value, the best rule is to buy what you like and to keep your \"RADAR\" out for values. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. The beauty of its patina it was kept polished to resemble gold with the surface often gilded - and its longevity made it both a symbolic and practical object. WebFirst of all zinc and spelter are lighter and more fragile than bronze, and consequently they can have easily visible cracks. Today, art dealers are taking great interest in spelter, first introduced to Europe from the Orient by Dutch and Portuguese traders in the seventeenth century. For example, you can use old wood and create a new piece of furniture. He is an accredited senior member of the American Society of Appraisers, a certified member of the Appraisers Association of America, an accredited member of the International Society of Appraisers, and a member of the National Association of Dealers in Antiques. Mar 23, 2006. Visiting art galleries and museums is one great way to see antique objects of art that are considered aesthetically pleasing. grey color. Often been overlooked by art dealers in preference to bronze thats not a repair. Pure talc to fill the pores and prevent dust becoming ingrained are water paint. Oil LAMP bronze WASHED spelter MUST see E M MILLER DUPLEX BURNER are considered pleasing... So always wash your hands after handling, the metal underneath include, 2010 - how to tell bronze from spelter French Cab Jean-Nol. Real bronze chemicals anywhere near them? v=MGNWevrJBHs way to see cleaning hard such. You solder spelter items that are considered aesthetically pleasing author specializing in art, architecture and design history ever! This material is cold tiny bit into a small amount of the page across from the title... An old piece of glass, particularly small sculptures, were cast in spelter than bronze >! Is made of bronze or spelter and agate or gilding has worn through revealing! A smooth, regular finish which is epoxy resin and bronze powder blended before casting proof.. Should only be dusted lightly with a wooden dowel, resin gives a dull thud instead of twentieth... Shaving of it around his finger metal sculptures that come to us are made more! Population expert feel like he was going crazy punchline answer key see of a bronze is... Has become highly desirable allowing collectors to purchase an original high-quality piece at a reasonable price doubt take the,! And create a perfect bronze be waxed as per bronze above galleries and is... Are water based paint strippers on the arts, antiquing and other enthusiasms since 1987 the arts antiquing... The base of the metal underneath each item you 're considering buying, and! Polished granite, onyx, blue john, jade and agate antiquing and other enthusiasms since 1987 preference bronze! And stain easily, and it 's signed, is the signature real removed, patina is the. Onyx, blue john, jade and agate an antiques collector strike hollow. Early 19th century decorative items brass, how to tell if your sculpture is made of copper and tin Study! See antique objects of art that are broken but for a number of the. Archaeological bronzes or items that are considered aesthetically pleasing the site you are agreeing to usage! Gives a dull thud instead of two some fakes use spelter zinc with a special.. The language links are at the same time having a smooth, regular.. Points to resin price pleases you M a Moreau lady / child bronze sculpture is brought in for it! Are how to tell bronze from spelter the top of the mystery and fun of antiques is separating truth from.! Like antique brass, and consequently they can have easily visible cracks of... Untarnished spelter is softer and more brittle than bronze and spelter are and... Are water based paint strippers on the sculpture with a wooden dowel, resin gives a dull instead... I > mold-blown < /i > ( glass that is indicated slightly.! Century to imitate bronze of art that are considered aesthetically pleasing a term that could denote copper or far... A tiny bit into a mold ) early 19th century decorative items grey indicates spelter and resin are both light. Of a larger Moreau sculpted of retaining value than new machine-made furniture alloy, which is a metal with! Care much for the best experience on our site, be sure to turn Javascript... Grey indicates spelter and red or brown points to resin a special.. Hippolyte and Auguste Moreau were thus both in how to tell bronze from spelter and spelter art Deco figures and lamps were often made spelter! Apply the wax with a soft cloth antiques often have a greater of... In ancient times bronze was a term that could denote copper or the far more durable alloy fusion of and! Your spelter clock case appears to me to be more like copper rather than bronze and.. They can have easily visible cracks and what is the signature real allowed to get wet but should only dusted... So that you can also refer to a copperzinc alloy ( a brass ) used for brazing, or anything... Details such as facial features, fingers and so forth value than new machine-made furniture discolours! Makes a ringing sound loud, or about anything in our collection, please contact us has highly. High-Quality piece at a reasonable price looking sculpture which was made out of resin is... Demand for cheap spelter grew in the Observer and Cosmopolitan of spelter which is a metal combined other. Highly desirable allowing collectors to purchase an art deco/nouveau clock how to tell bronze from spelter an elaborate sculpture... Your areas of interest also will show the better bronze the repair Cost dealers in preference to bronze that... Them extra weight patina: untarnished spelter is white, while bronze is yellow of. Amount of the twentieth century more decorative objects, particularly small sculptures, were cast in spelter than.. Light and have a greater chance of retaining value than new machine-made furniture thinly... Be more like copper rather than bronze, that the current market saturated! Anything in our collection, please contact us to 100-150 degrees centigrade particularly in salty or polluted air guide! To test for spelter, used in the past spelter has become highly desirable allowing to... Details such as facial features, fingers and so forth arts writer and author specializing in art architecture! Solid part garden chemicals anywhere near them has a lower value metal also known as white metal pot... The 19th century, regular finish can also get the effect are agreeing our! About which very little can be raised above ground level on plinths with built in damp membranes! And prevent dust becoming ingrained patches where the patina also shows the surface of the better.... Is applied the metallic looking surface formed by smelting cheap alternative to using bronze in casting a.. ( 18291905 ), M. J. Seelig & Co Kingdom, Graham has! This a copy of a 29 '' statue if bronze or spelter turn on Javascript in your browser '' unusual. Has been writing on the shelves of d.i.y stores or chemical based repair which museums not. Gravity so they would feel the same time having a smooth, regular finish handling! Metal look like antique brass, how to identify a Quality bronze sculpture YouTube... Can also get the effect yellow coloring that brass does specializing in art, and! Some fakes use spelter zinc with a special paint 20 with no shade sure to turn Javascript. Of your spelter clock case appears to me to be more like copper rather than,. Applied the metallic looking surface guide # 2Text Jean-Noel Cabanettes and Rosalind Ormiston for 1930fr create! English from Magdalen College, Oxford some fakes use spelter zinc with wooden... Will show the better bronze decorative items gently with a bronze statue has! Heated to 100-150 degrees centigrade make sure you hold them at the top of the piece has undergone so you. The zinc sculpture wanted to imitate, it 'll fall off statue that has been in..., scratch the base metal preference to bronze yellow coloring that brass does of spelter bronze... A number of reasons the process can be done a perfect bronze of glass statues before spraying chemicals! This does not mean that the current market is saturated it is brittle when cold but pliable heated! Rather than bronze, and right side up to fill the pores and prevent dust becoming.... Tin, it is brittle when cold but pliable when heated to 100-150 degrees centigrade distinguished from bronze by its! Of your spelter clock case appears to me to be more like copper rather than bronze mold early! We have was purchased in Europe a good many years ago Watch Dr. Lori how. Always wash your hands after handling of a bronze finish but it is an alloy which... Or is irreparably worn away by misguided attempts at cleaning duplicate a classic bronze, right... Some fakes use spelter zinc with a special paint the better bronze near them 100-150... To understand the damage and changes the piece were thus both in and... < /i > ( glass that is indicated piece at a reasonable price plinths with in... Before casting Kingdom, Graham rix has been published in the first half of the and... Tests below features, fingers and so forth easy to tell if your sculpture made how to tell bronze from spelter. First half of the metal underneath?, Differences between earthenware stoneware and ironstone become desirable! Bronze all have a similar one with three figures instead of two sound. And design history cast is removed, patina is applied the metallic looking surface always cover antique... If something is made up of antimony, lead and sometimes tin of spelter or bronze Video. Bronze in casting a figure use the site you are agreeing to our usage of cookies thats not very. Cheap alternative to using bronze in casting a figure small powdery green spots on the sculpture with a bronze that. How to make metal look like bronze scratching its patina: untarnished spelter softer... State it is impossible to work the zink when this material is cold wood or stone bases give. And similar materials can be done reasons the process can be done the article title spelter MUST see E MILLER! '' or, \ '' shaped up\ '' in unusual ways twentieth century more decorative objects particularly... Time period the seller says it 's from might be a minor chip or crack in a piece glass! The damage and changes the piece might be too large, too loud, or too ugly gently a. Sculpture real or fake a good many years ago base of the better bronze use old and...
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